AuthorRohit Chauhan

Trading on noise

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Mid-caps and small cap stocks have an average standard deviation of around 18-20% per annum. The implication of this factoid is that these stocks can drop or rise by 15%+ over a year for no fundamental reason at all.

Anecdotally most of us have seen a drop or rise in the stock price by 15% or more within a quarter, even in absence of any stock specific news. One can say that the stock price in such cases is being driven by noise.

What is noise?

In layman’s term, noise is variation without any underlying cause. In other words, the probability of the upside or downside is around 50%, which is the equivalent of a coin toss (random event). So if you expect a 15% variation due to noise, the probability of increase or decrease is the same with the expected value being zero ( expected value = 0.5*upside+0.5*downside)

Trading on noise

If your trading or investing strategy involves a 15-18% upside on the current price within a year, it is quite likely that the stock price may rise for no reason other than random fluctuations. In such a scenario, you may end up making money for no specific reason – though you may think that it was the result of your accurate analysis.

The risk of making money in such a way is that one ends up with the wrong conclusions, even though the real  cause of success was sheer luck (for further understanding of this phenomenon , you should read the book – fooled by randomness).

In addition to a faulty understanding, the long term returns can turn out to be sub par as the expected value for a series of such trades is essentially zero (upside and downside being equally likely).

Financial news is all noise

I am sure most of you have watched the financial news channels. Almost 90% of the time is spent on explaining the fluctuations during the day, which for the predominant part is just noise. Ofcourse you will get some information or insight if you spent the entire day watching this circus, but it is like chewing a ton of grass to get a litre of milk.

There are far more efficient and easier ways to get the required information – annual reports or magazine articles being some of them. One should watch these channels for entertainment and not for information.

Noise trading quite pervasive

If you think that trading or investing on noise is a rare occurrence, you may be mistaken. I am sure most of you would have seen analyst reports or talking heads recommend some stock with a 10-15% upside in the short to medium term.

If the random fluctuation of stocks is 15% or more, then some of the recommendations will achieve this upside for no reason at all. The unsophisticated investor would erroneously consider the analyst to be skilled at picking stocks and may start following such people or worse, even pay for such advise.

How to see through such tricks?

I will suggest a simple set of rules to ignore analysts and their stock picks if the following is true

          A price target with a 15-20% upside within the year

          A success rate of 55% or less in terms of success rate (preferably over a year)

          Completely confident and sure of the picks (no allowance or probability of error)

Now, you may be thinking that the above is an unrealistic and harsh set of expectations. Let me ask you this – In your job or business, does your boss or customer give you a raise or money for being wrong more than 50% of the times?

As far as I know, if someone goofed up 20% of the times or more, he or she will be out of a job or business. Why should the expectations from an analyst be any lower?

Vote on an article topic

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update: 23-12
A lot of readers have responded to the survey. My personal thanks to all of you, who have responded.

The topic which got the maximum vote is – How to search for and analyse investment ideas ?

The balance questions were ordered in the following manner with the second and third place a close tie
How to read and analyse an annual report – second place 
Discounted cash flow analysis – third place
My goofups and learnings of 2012 – fourth place
Portfolio management for professionals – fifth place

I will be putting together a post over next month, for the topic which got the highest ranking  I will take up the next two topics too in due course of time.

The topic which was my favorite – about my magnetic personality 🙂 got 15% votes. atleast 15% of you like my magnetic personality !!! 🙂

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I get emails from a lot of readers to write about various topics. The topics requested are important for most investors and I think a majority of the readers of the blog would benefit from them. 

I have put a poll on the list of topics which have been requested in the past (except point 6) and would write on the topic which gets the most votes. If you want a different topic to be written about and is not on the list, please leave a comment and i will take it up in a future poll. 

I am sure you can guess, which topic will get my vote 🙂

Triveni turbines limited – Waiting for growth

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About
Triveni turbine is a Bangalore based company in the business of manufacturing and servicing steam turbines upto 30 Mw. In addition the company has a JV with GE (general electric) for turbines in the range of 30-100 Mw.

The company has around 2500 turbine installations globally and is a market leader in India in the sub 30 Mw range with a market share of around 55%.

Steam turbines have multiple applications such as co-generation, captive power plants, and Industrial drives and in ships. The company supplies industry specific turbines to multiple industry segments such as sugar, cement, steel, chemicals, municipal solid waste and textiles.

Financials

The company was spun off from triveni engineering in 2011, which also has a sugar, water management and gears business. The turbines business has grown from around 280 crs in 2006 to around 670 Crs in the current year at a CAGR of around 13%. PBT has risen from around 37 Crs to 140 crs in the current year at a CAGR of 20%+.

The company has been able to maintain an operating margin of roughly 25% during this period and a return on capital in excess of 100%. The company is able to earn such a high return on capital due to negative working capital and high operating margins.

Positives

The company earns a very high return on capital which points to the presence of a sustainable competitive advantage. It enjoys a very high market share in India and is now expanding into export markets too

The company also has the following four growth engines working for it

      Industrial demand for power via captive power plants. Additional demand from co-gen opportunities
      Service demand from the install base and for turbines of other manufacturers.
      Demand from the JV with GE in India and abroad for the 30-100 Mw range
      Export demand for sub 30 Mw product range

In addition to the above growth opportunities, the company is currently running at around 40-50% of capacity and can expand sales with minimal capex.

Risks

The key risk for the company is a delay in the revival of the capex cycle. The investment cycle has slowed down in India and in the export markets. As a result the company has struggled to grow the topline and profits in the last 2 years. If the capex does not revive, the company could face stagnant profits for some more time.

Competitive analysis

The key competitor for the company in India is Siemens. However companies like Siemens and BHEL have a very wide range of products and are not as focused on a single product in a narrow range (below 30 Mw). Most companies in this sector enjoy a decent return on capital and hence triveni turbine should continue to earn a high return in the foreseeable future.

Management quality checklist

          Management compensation : reasonable at around 1-2% of profit
          Capital allocation record : In the short operating period as an independent company, management has used the free cash to pay down the debt and the company should be debt free by the end of the year
          Shareholder communication – fairly good. The company shares adequate details via the annual report and quarterly investor updates and conference calls.
          Accounting practice – appear conservative
          Conflict of interest – none

Valuation

The company is currently selling at around 20 times earnings. On the face of it, this does not appear to be cheap. At the same time one has to look beyond the raw numbers. The topline and profits for the company have stagnated in the last 2 years with a complete collapse of investment demand.

During this period, several capital goods companies have made losses and have seen their working capitals blow up. During one of the worst downturns in the sector, the company has remained solidly profitable and continues to operate with a negative working capital.

In addition the company expanding its export business has a thriving and growing turbine services business and should see additional revenue from the JV with GE. We may not see a PE expansion as the company is already operating very efficiently, however as the topline and profits start expanding, we should get a return commensurate with the growth.

Conclusion

The company operates in a niche and has a sustainable competitive advantage due to its customer relationships and service network. In addition the company has formed a JV for the 30-100 Mw range which should enable it to expand the target market for its products.

The company’s performance has stagnated in the last 2years due to the macro economic conditions. However the long term prospects remain intact and the company and its stock should do well in the long run.

Disclosure: No position in the stock as of writing this post

Stocks discussed in this post are for educational purpose only and not recommendations to buy or sell. Please read disclaimer towards the end of blog. 

2013 market predictions

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We are approaching the year end and soon the experts will start coming out with their predictions for next year. As there is a lot of competition to be the first one, I decided to get ahead in the line by kicking it off in November itself

So here goes
1.    Barring any macro-economic shocks and if sensex earnings exceed 15%, the stock market should be up next year. If however we have a crisis in Europe or we get an oil shock then the index could even touch 10000 levels.

2.    Gold could be up by 10%, if we get a major recession in US due to the fiscal cliff and it could surprise us on the upside if it coincides with the further instability in Greece and Spain. Over the long term, the macro-economic and supply-demand drivers point to a continued increase in gold prices.

3.    Capital good stocks in India could surprise on the upside if the current momentum on the reforms continue. One needs to focus on high quality names in the sector

4.    The consumption story continues to play out and high quality names should outperform the market in 2013, barring any sudden depreciation of the rupee. Demand from consumption centers, such as India and China largely seem to be on a firm footing

5.    The real estate market will continue to face headwinds of high interest rates in the initial part of the year, but if  RBI starts cutting rates in the second half, we could see higher activity in certain pockets of the market

6.    Rohit Chauhan will become the smartest and richest investor in the Indian stock markets.  President Obama and other world leaders will seek his counsel on how to fix the developed economies J

Did I get you? Do you realize how absurd these predictions are?
There is a consistent pattern in all these predictions. They are not predicting anything and are simply stating that a market will go up if all conditions are right, otherwise it will go down (if the conditions go bad). This is similar to what you would hear from an astrologer if you were to ask him about your future.
One more point – I did not make up all these predictions. I just googled some sites and cut and paste what I found for 2012 (yes for the current year !!).
If you really feel the urge to get some predictions for 2013 on the cheap, please email me and send me 10 Rs. I know a guy on the street with a parrot, who for 10 bucks , will ask his bird to pick a card and will use the card to tell you the future. The parrot is a better fortune teller (50% accuracy), is crisp and short (no beating round the bush) and much cheaper.

For the patient investor: ILFS investment managers

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About
IL&FS investment managers is a private equity/ fund management company promoted by ILFS (50.5% ownership). The company is in the business of raising funds from investors (institutional – both in India and abroad) in the form of individual fund offerings.

These funds have their individual mandates such private equity investments, infrastructure or real estate type investments. The company is responsible for investing the funds, managing the risks of individual investments and then finally working out exits from these investments. The company has been fairly successfull in managing the funds, generating 20%+ returns on most of the funds in the past for the fund investors.

The main source of revenue for the company is the fixed 2% management fee on these funds and an override on the returns over a threshold (a percentage of the gains made, above a threshold)

Financials

The company has delivered a 35% growth per annum over the last 8 years. The company earned around 225 Crs in 2012.

The company has grown the net profits at around 40% over the same period and made around 74 Crs in 2012. The main cost for the company is compensation for the employees and overhead expenses incurred on launching and operating the funds. The company has been able to maintain net margins in excess of 30% in the last 10 years.

Finally, the company has been able to maintain a high ROE of 30%+ and if one excludes the excess cash on the balance sheet, the ROE would be in excess of 50%.

Positives

The business requires minimal incremental capital to grow. The main assets of the company are the brand, its relationships with clients and the skills/knowledge of its employees.

The company needs very little capital to grow (some extra office space and maybe a few computers) and hence the entire profit is truly free cash flow. The company has consistently maintained a high dividend payout ratio in the past (over 50%) and used the excess capital to acquire a new fund (saffron) in 2010.

The company has a long operating history in raising and investing funds in various opportunities in India with good results (returns in excess of 20%). As a result the company has a good reputation with current and potential investors which should help the company raise additional funds from the clients in the future.

Risks

The company operates in a very competitive environment with minimal entry barriers. The company now faces stiff competition from a large number of Indian and international competitors such as hedge funds and other private equity funds. This has resulted in higher competition for raising India specific funds and investing the same in attractive opportunities (businesses) in India. This could result in lower returns for the fund investors and hence lower income for the company in the future.

The slowdown in the investment cycle, recent actions by the government such as the GAAR fiasco and other global macro-economic factors have made it difficult for the company to raise new funds. In addition the exit timelines for the fund investments have increased due to weak stock markets, resulting in lower returns for the fund investors. All this has impacted the revenue of the company which depends on the volume of funds managed (AUM) and the carry (excess returns over a threshold). It is unlikely that the investment cycle will turn around quickly, due to which the company may face a longer period of low revenue growth or even de-growth over the next few quarters.

Management quality checklist

Management compensation: fairly high at 25% of revenue. However this kind of compensation is typical of the industry.
Capital allocation record: extremely good. The company has maintained a very high dividend payout ratio and has indicated that they will dividend out almost the entire profits to the shareholders.
Shareholder communication: Quite good. The company provides adequate details of the business in its annual reports and conducts quarterly conference calls to keep the shareholders updated on progress.
Accounting practice: conservative
Conflict of interest: none

Valuation

The company is currently selling at a PE of around 7 which is on the lower side of the past PE range of the company (6-23). A company earning an ROE of around 30% and with a 15%+ growth prospects can easily support a PE of 15 or more. The company thus appears undervalued by most objective measures.

Conclusion

The company has performed extremely well in the past and has rewarded the shareholders well. The period from 2003-2008 was a bull market for private equity and stock markets resulting in high returns for the company’s funds. This resulted in good profits and high growth for the company.

The markets have slowed down considerably since the 2008 financial crisis and the Indian government has made it worse in the last few years. As a result, the company has struggled to raise new funds which is needed to drive the topline and profits for the company. It is likely that the company will take a few more quarters before it can raise and deploy new funds and a result the topline and profits could stagnate for some time.

The long term prospects of the company are good, though it will take time for the company to start growing again. This would test the patience of most investors.

Disclosure: No position in the stock as of writing this post
Stocks discussed in this post are for educational purpose only and not recommendations to buy or sell. Please read disclaimer towards the end of blog

Investing to be rich

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If one wants to be rich, one should learn how to invest on your own…right ? that way you can compound your capital and retire rich ! Isnt that obvious ?

If I am asking this question, you can guess I don’t believe it to be the case.
I get asked this question in different shapes and forms and a typical email goes like this

Rohit – I am currently X years old and want to become financially independent in the next 10 years so that I can purse XYZ (insert a dream here). Can you suggest how to become a better investor so that I can have enough money in a decade to pursue my dream ?
What does it take to be an active investor ?
It takes a  few hours a week for a year or so to become financially literate, which involves having a reasonable understanding of various investment options such as fixed deposits, mutual funds, stocks, and insurance etc. Once you reach this level of understanding, you can with a moderate amount of effort,  identify a mix of assets which will help you earn around 12-14% return per annum (depending on the mix of debt and equity)

In effect, you can spend a few hours a month and earn 12-14% on your assets over the long term. We can call this a baseline level  of effort.

Now lets assume that you are not satisfied with the above returns and would not settle for anything less than 20%+ levels (around 10 times in the 10 years). If you wish to achieve these level of returns, then you  need to invest atleast 15+ hours a week on learning various aspects of investing and in finding new opportunities on a regular basis.

What is the return on time in case of active investing?
So what do I mean by the term – Return on time ? Let me illustrate with an example.

Let’s look at a typical case of a young professional who has a full time job. Let’s assume the following

Annual salary in year 1 = 10 lacs
Annual savings  in year 1 = 5 lacs (I know this is too high, but we are considering an optimistic scenario)

Salary increases each year by 10% and so does the savings. This individual has two options for his/ her savings. They can be financially literate and spend minimal time (a few hours a month) and earn around 12-14% per annum or spend 15 hrs or more on investing and earn a much higher return.
Lets also assume the individual works around 40 hrs each week in his / her job  (would be higher in reality)
So whats does the return on time (money earned per hour spent) look like for the person in terms of active investing ?
 Lets look at the table below
I have plotted the savings, the extra returns earned by putting in  extra hours each week (15 hrs per week) and the per hour return
A few things standout,

In the initial years when one has a small level of savings and is just starting out, the per hour ‘salary’ from investing  is way below the per hour salary from a job. The higher your education or skill, the larger the gap.

This is the best case scenario. The above picture worsens if one gets hit by a bear (a certainity in a 10 year period). The last column shows that this ratio becomes favorable only after  8-9 years

Implications of the analysis

The above analysis though silly,  lead us to a fairly important conclusion. If the only reason you want to become an active investor is to make more money, then it is not a very smart way to do it.

For starters, all the time spent in the initial years will appear to be a complete waste of time. Most of the people soon realize that the extra returns are really not worth the time.
In addition, if you start late in a bull cycle (as most individuals do), the quick and easy returns are soon lost in the subsequent bear market. In most cases, such individuals throw in the towel and move on to other pursuits in life.
Finally, the additional hours spent on investing means that one does not have time for any other pursuits like having girlfriends or other hobbies  at the prime time of their life (early to late 20s).
My personal story
The above table and discussion is not theoretical. I have personally lived it for the last 15 years. I started investing in the late 90s (around 1997). I think I was financially literate by around 1998 and around that time came across the book – The warren buffett way. I read about this person who had become the second richest person by investing in stocks and was completely mesmerized by it.
I read the biography of warren buffett (Making of an American capitalist) and his letter to sharehlolders and anything else I could find about him. It was in late 1999 , early 2000 that I finally turned to active investing.
As you can see, my timing was perfect. I made some money for around 3-4 months of 2000 and then lost all the gains by the end of year – some on paper and some of it was a permanent loss as I had put money in IT/ Internet oriented mutual funds (don’t ask what I was thinking).
The years from 2000-2003 was one long bear market, where the market slowly went down from 4000 levels to around 3000 in a period of three years. If I put the numbers in the earlier table, my ‘salary’ from investing was negative, whereas I was making a good income from my full time job.
Any rational person after three year of losing money, would have given up investing and move onto something else in life. I did not even think of it as I was extremely passionate about it and inspite of mediocre absolute returns, I was still beating the market by a large margin.
The market turned in mid 2003 and as it took off for the next 5 years, so did my portfolio.
Better way to well
As you can see from my personal experience and from the analysis, that investing is definitely not a quick or easy way to becoming rich.
Let me suggest an alternative – If you are really passionate about something or good at your full time job, focus on it and get better at it. You will have fun doing it and over a decade you will make a decent amount of money out of it. Invest the money saved, sensibly by becoming financially literate and you will realize that not only is your life more pleasant , but  that you also have enough tucked away for a rainy day.
I know this is not the conventional wisdom and we have a cottage industry of people  encouraging others to invest on their own. I would rather follow my interest/ passions and become good at it (the money usually follows then), than do something just for the sake of a little extra money.
 
In case you wondering about the life I had outside work and investing early on …I am not going to disclose than on my blog and get in trouble with my wife J

Value trading

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I am going to discuss a new term –value trading in this post. It is a very interesting concept and it was first mentioned by my good friend – arpit ranka.  I cannot claim any originality on this concept, but once it was mentioned  by arpit, I started thinking about it and found a lot of validity and relevance to my style of investing.
What is value trading? (my definition)
Value trading is best described as buying a stock with the expectation of selling the same (hopefully with a gain) in a short period of time based on the realization of a single or multiple triggers. This trigger can be fundamental in nature such as normalization of sales/ profit margins (from a temporary low), business event such as launch of a new product or new capacity or change in the business environment for the better such as moving from extreme  to moderate pessimism .
In addition to the fundamental issues, the trigger could be technical in nature such as short term overselling of a stock due to unexpectedly poor results or some temporary event such as elections which do not really impact the fundamentals of the business
In all these cases, one is expecting that the trigger will occur in the short term and the stock price will get a quick bounce (10%+) and one would be able to exit with a nice little profit
How does it differ from value investing
The above definition may sound a lot like value investing and I have been guilty of mixing the two for all these years. However as I think back, I have come to realize that they are not strictly the same and confusing the two can actually be harmful (as I will explain later in the post)
If one invests  with a long term horizon in mind, then it is critical to have a good idea of the intrinsic value of the company. In addition this intrinsic value should increase over time, if one is to make above average returns in the long run.

So in effect, one is playing a short term trigger in the case of value trading versus betting on the business in the case of value investing.
Examples of value trading
Lets look at some example I have posted in the past and look at which bucket these ideas fall into

  1. Patels airtemp
 I would call this ideas as a value trading idea as this company is in a highly cyclical industry. At the time of buying the stock, I was expecting that the downturn in the capital goods industry would not be deep and the fundamentals of the company and  its stock price would soon bounce back.
The trigger has yet to happen and as result the stock has slid further since the time I wrote about it.
  1. Ashok Leyland
I started looking closely at this company in mid 2008 and by the end of the year the bottom had fallen out of the commercial vehicle market (the company stopped production for a month in dec 2008 to reduce the inventory). I purchased the stock in early 2009 at highly depressed prices.
The trigger – normalization of commercial vehicle sales happened quite quickly towards the end of 2009 and the stock turned out to be a four bagger.
In both cases, I expected a normalization of  the fundamental performance and a bounce back in the stock price. In one case it happened faster than expected resulting in a large gain and in the other case the downturn has been deeper than expected and hence the stock price continues to languish
  1. Amara raja battery
The company is a no.2 player in the battery industry and operates in a close duopoly. The key insight in this idea is that the company is expanding its competitive advantage (brand and distribution) and also benefiting from  migration of demand from the un-organized to organized sector
I would tag this as a value investing idea as i don’t expect a specific trigger other than the fact that the company is improving its competitive position and hence should see an improvement in profitability and growth.

The first two examples I have discussed should bring out the following key point – In a value trading idea, the intrinsic value may not expanding or could be declining too. However the stock is undervalued and a set of triggers could close the gap with the intrinsic value. You can call this mode of investing as deep value investing or graham style investing too.
The last example of amara raja is more of a buffett style, high quality stock where although  one is expecting the gap with the intrinsic value to close, the bigger gains come from an increase in the value of the company itself.
The differentiating factors
The two modes of investing differ on several factors. The first factor is time – Time works against you in the case of value trading. If the trigger happens quickly,  the price rises quickly to the fair value and one can exit with a nice little profit. On the other hand if trigger gets delayed, then the overall returns may remain the same, but the annualized return is much lower.
In case of value investing, time works in your favor. As the company continues to grow its intrinsic value, the stock price should hopefully follow it (some times in spurts) and thus the idea becomes a buy and hold kind of idea.
The second factor where these two approaches differ is the nature of the business. The value trading approach works better in commodity  and cyclical industries. If one can catch the bottom of the cycle and bet on a tier 2 or tier 3 company in the sector, then the gains are very high when the cycle swings back to a normalized level. At the same time, one needs to also ensure that the stock is sold once the cycle has turned .
Value investing approach works where the economics of the business is good and the company has a competitive advantage. In such cases, if one buys the stock at reasonable valuations, then returns are good over a long period of time
Do not mix the drinks !
I would say that value investing or long term investing should occupy a larger portion of the portfolio. If however you have the time and energy to look for  value trading kind of ideas and can play them well,  the portfolio can get an extra boost from time to time
The danger is really from mixing the two approaches as I have done in the past. I have bought  trading kind of ideas and held on to it for a long time (assuming it was a long term investment). In such the cases the absolute returns came through, though the annualized returns were mediocre due to a delay in the key triggers.
The correct approach would be to keep in mind the nature of the idea (trading v/s investing), identify the triggers and the time it would take for the same to play out. If the triggers change or get delayed , then one should exit a value trading kind of idea. In contrast in a value investing idea, time is working in your favor and temporary hiccups are sometimes a good time to add to the position. In all such cases, one should just sit tight with the position.

A simpler way to invest

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Let’s do a thought experiment – Let’s say you are going on a multi-year cruise or journey around the world and need to invest your or your retired parent’s money. Let’s also assume that you want to ensure that the money is secure, but at the same time earns a decent rate of return (Which beats inflation).

Investments of this type should have the following characteristics
a.    The portfolio of such investments should be reasonably secure – low probability of long term loss of capital, though temporary fluctuations are fine
b.    Above average rate of return – The investments should beat the inflation and possibly earn a few percentage points above it, so that your family can withdraw a small portion of the capital without a reduction in principal
c.    Low maintenance – should not require your family or you to run around, doing tons of paperwork or other tasks to manage it
Let’s invert the question and look at what will not be good options
a.    Fixed deposit – Safe and low maintenance, but the rate of return barely beat inflation. As a result, if you use up the interest , the capital base will get eroded by inflation
b.    Real estate – May be secure and give above average returns, but requires constant work (maintenance, repair, payment of taxes etc). In addition, you cannot really invest small amounts of money into it.
c.    Gold – If you have been following me for sometime, you know my distaste for it. It is not an income producing asset and I cannot think of any family selling gold for meeting expenses – Remember the old Hindi films, where the family sells gold when it is in dire circumstances? We are too conditioned by those images.
I know you would have realized where I am going – equities!, but then not all types of equities. The above criteria eliminate some types of companies from the consideration set.
a.    New companies with a short operating history – Sure, the company is going to be the next titan or  ITC  (fill in the name), but if the companies goes down the drain while you are away then your family is in trouble
b.    Speculative companies – Loss making or penny stocks which have performed poorly in the past but have a very bright future.
c.    Companies with poor management – I don’t want to hand over my money to a crooked management who could cheat me in my absence (remember we are away for a long period of time)
If you think through all these options, you will realize that you are left with a small list of companies which meet the following criteria
a.    Durable competitive advantage – The company has done well in the past and you are assured that it will do well for a long period of time in your absence
b.    Good management – You can trust the management to be good caretakers of your money in your absence
c.    Reasonable prospects – The Company may not have phenomenal growth prospects, but should deliver above average growth.
If you put all these points together, I hope you can see a picture forming. We are talking of companies such as
Asian paints
HDFC ltd
HDFC bank
Crisil
ITC
Titan etc
A portfolio of such companies would be fairly safe as one is talking of good companies with above average economics and decent management. These companies may not be the next multi-bagger, but it is easy to see that they will give one a 15% or higher annualized return for a long period of time.  Even if you consume 3-4 % of the return (via dividend or sale), your capital will still compound at 10-11%, which will take care of the corrosive effects of inflation.
If the above makes sense, then why am I not following it? Let me tell you why – The desire for higher returns! I think I can make higher returns than what I can get from these companies.
Please note the word – ‘Think’ and not would. Anyone who decides to invest on their own in all kinds of midcaps, small caps and other equity options is implicitly assuming that he or she can do better than these proven ‘blue chips’.
I am not saying that some people cannot do better, but I don’t think the lay investor who chases the current fad and hot tips, will do better than a basket of such companies. It is often smarter to make a sure 15% than chase the dream of 100% returns.

My experiences with deep value investing

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Deep value investing or cigar butt investing, is buying stocks whose price is way below the various statistical measures of value of the company. Now, value can be measured by various means such as PE ratios, discounted cash flow analysis or asset values. In case of deep value investing, one is investing in stocks which are selling at a very low PE, below book value or in some cases even below cash held by the company.

This method of investing was introduced and popularized by the father of value investing – Benjamin graham in his classic security analysis (A must read for any serious investor). In this book, graham talks about companies selling below working capital, book value or in some extreme cases, even the cash held by the company.

This mode of analysis is a quantitative, statistics driven method where in one holds a large number of such ‘Cheap’ companies. A few positions work out, a few go down the drain and rest just stagnate doing nothing. In spite of such a mix, the overall portfolio does quite well and one is able to earn decent returns at low risk

The key element in this investment operation is wide diversification and constant search for new ideas to replace the duds in the portfolio.

Initial foray into high quality
My first exposure to sensible investing (reading economictimes and watching CNBC does not count in that), was when I read the book – The warren buffett way. I was completely mesmerized by this person and read all I could on him for the next few years.

After burning my finger a bit during the dotcom bust, my initial investments were in the warren buffett mold (high quality stocks with competitive advantages). My initial investments were in asian paints, pidilite, Maricoetc – the so called consumption stocks except that they were not called by this label then.

I have always wondered why these stocks are called consumption stocks? are capital goods and real estate ‘un-consumption’ companies whose products no one wants to consume J ? Anyway I digress

An experiment in deep value
Around 2006-2007, i decided to run a small experiment of investing in deep value, statistically cheap stocks. I eventually invested around 10-15% of my portfolio in  names such as Denso, Cheviot company, Facor alloys and VST industries (see here), etc for a period of around 3-4 years.

I decided to terminate this approach in 2011 and have been exiting the positions since then. In the rest of the post I will cover my experience and learnings from this long run experiment.

The results

The results from this portion of the portfolio (which was tracked separately) was actually quite decent. I was able to beat the market by 5-6% points during this period. At the same time, this part of the portfolio lagged the high quality portion by 6-7% over the same time period. The difference may not appear to be big, but  adds up over time to a considerable difference due to the power of compounding.

I have not completely forsaken this mode of investing and once in while could buy something which is very cheap and has a near term catalyst to unlock the value.

Why did I quit ?
I did not quit for the obvious reason of lower returns than the rest of the portfolio. The lower return played a part, but if I compare the effort invested in building and maintaining a deep value portfolio ,  it is much lower than trying to identify a high quality and reasonably priced company .

If one compares, the return on time invested (versus return on capital), the balance could tilt towards the deep value style of investing.
Let me list the reasons for moving away from this style of investing

Temperament – The no.1 reason is temperament. I have realized that I do not have the temperament to invest in this fashion. I do not like to buy poorly  managed, weak companies which are extremely cheap and then wait for that one spike when I can sell it off and move on to the next idea. It makes my stomach churn everytime I read the annual report of such companies and see the horrible economics of the business and miserable performance of the management.
Life is too short such for such torture

Re-investment risk- The other problem in this mode of investing is the constant need for new ideas , to replace the duds in the portfolio. This exposes one to re-investment risk (replacing one bad stock with another bad idea), especially during bull markets.
Value traps – This part of the market (deep value) is filled with stocks which can be called as value traps. These are companies which appear cheap on statistical basis, and remain so forever. The reasons vary from a bad cyclical industry to poor corporate management. In all such cases, the loss is not so much as the actual loss of money, but  the opportunity loss of missing better performing ideas.

Higher trading – The final problem in this mode of investing is the constant churn in the portfolio resulting in higher transaction costs and higher taxes, both of which reduce the overall returns.

The lessons
I know some of you, have never followed this mode of investing and have always invested in quality. The problem with investing in quality is the risk of over payment, especially if the quality is just an illusion (faked as in the case of several companies in the real estate sector in 2007-2008). Anyway, that is a topic for another post.

I am constantly experimenting , with a small amount , with new approaches and ideas. If there is a valid approach, which matches my overall value investing approach (momentum and technical trading is out), I will try it and see if it works for me. It is one thing to read about it and another to put some money into to it and immerse oneself in it.

As some has said – an expert is someone who has made the most mistakes and survived. Well, at the current rate of making mistakes, I hope to become an expert in the next 10-20 years J.

Investing for dividends

I

I recently got an email asking my views on investing for dividends, especially for retirement planning. I have never quite understood why there should be a difference between investing for dividends v/s for capital appreciation. My response (with light editing) follows the question below

Hi Rohit,

I have analyzed and concluded that a growth-based, active portfolio is not very suitable for retirement planning. One would have to shift towards a dividend-based, passive portfolio when one approaches retirement.
That way, one would not have to bother about the market gyrations and one can still receive an (almost) inflation-proof income flow. (Basically, I found that if the markets stay depressed for 5-7 years or more, one may have to sell a portion of the portfolio at unattractive price and that can start eroding the capital base very fast.)
I will be happy to know your views.
My response
Your question is very important.
I personally don’t subscribe to the view of investing for dividend v/s growth as I think they are two sides of the same coin. Let me explain
When selecting a company for the long term, we are looking for the following
a)    Company earning high return on capital with good cash flows
b)    Reasonable valuations
c)    Good capital allocation policy by management
if you are able to achieve  the above three criteria, you are assured of reasonable returns either through capital appreciation or dividend (and often both).
Let’s say the company is growing rapidly and able to invest the entire cash flow in the business. If the company makes 20%+ return on capital, then in such a case the company is growing at 20%+ rate if the re-investment rate is 100%. In such a case the value of the company will be increase by 3X time in 5-7 year. The market usually will not ignore the company and its stock price will increase too and you can always sell a small bit for income purpose.
The above case is usually in theory…high quality companies generally invest a large portion of their profits in the business and give a part out as dividend. If they can keep reinvesting the profit at a high rate of return, then they will hold the payout ratio constant (percentage of profit paid out). In such a case the dividend will grow at the rate of the profit growth, which is generally higher than the rate of inflation. An investor is thus getting an increasing dividend and should get a reasonable amount of capital appreciation too.
In case of some slow growing companies, if the company cannot re-invest a big portion of the profit into the business, then the amount paid out as dividend will start increasing at a rate faster than the profits. In such cases, one is making returns via dividends (assuming stock price remains constant). These companies are the equivalent of a high yield bond. This is what one may call investing for dividends, as one need not worry about the price of the stock (the dividend yield takes care of the income requirement)
In all the above cases, you are making a good return either through capital appreciation or dividend or in most cases, both. This again is not theory, as you will find this to be the case with a lot of high quality companies in India such as asian paints, nestle, Hero motors etc
What is required in the above cases is that the business is of high quality and management has good capital allocation skills (if it cannot use the profit, it returns it back to shareholder). If these conditions are not met, the stock price will start reflecting the poor performance and the dividends will weaken too.
If you accept what I am saying, you will understand why I don’t believe in dividend or growth investing. I would rather focus on the source of the returns (high quality business with good management and decent price) than the form of the returns (dividend v/s capital appreciation)
Regards
Rohit
I did not cover some points in the email, which I am covering below
Issue of volatility and retirement
How should one manage the market volatility near retirement, when there is a possibility of a large drop in the portfolio at the time of need.
The iron rule of investing in stock markets (if there are any to begin with) is that one should never put that portion of capital in the market which may be required in the near future  (next 3-5 years). If you need the money for your kids education or marriage or some other purpose in the near future, put it in a fixed deposit ! period – there is no other sensible option. You should never be forced to sell at the wrong time (when the markets are weak)
Once you are closer to retirement, as any sensible financial advisor will tell you, you should start reducing the equity component to reduce the volatility in your portfolio. The exact calculation and approach is a bit detailed and beyond what I can cover in this post.
How am I planning for retirement? I don’t plan to retire 🙂
I am not joking. If you love what you do (in my case investing), why would you want to retire. If I retire, I will drive myself and my wife crazy.

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