AuthorRohit Chauhan

Analysis : Lakshmi machine works

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About
Lakshmi machine works is the biggest textile machinery supplier with a market share of around 60% of the indian market. In addition the company also has a machine tool and foundry division which together contribute to less than 10% of the total revenue.
The company’s main market is india and is one of the lowest cost suppliers in the country. In addition the company is also planning to setup a unit in china for textile machinery and is also focussing on the other divisions

Financials
The company’s performance has improved in the last 5 years. This improvement has been on the backdrop of an upcycle in the textile business and the removal of the Textile quotas in the international markets.
The company’s ROE has improved from around 8% to around 30%. The sales increased 4 times during this period. In addition the net profit has gone up by 10 times due to the increase in the net margins from 4.7% to around 10%+ during the same period.
A more commendable improvement has been the improvement in the Wcap turns. The company has become working capital negative and now has almost 600+ crs on the balance. As a result of this improvement the company has a very lean balance sheet where out of the total 800 Crs, only 200 Crs is the invested capital. Due to this the Asset turns is very high at 11.5.

Positives
The company is a one of lowest cost producers in the industry. In addition the company has improved its capital efficiency dramatically during this upcycle. This improvement has come as a result of the improvement in inventory turns and recievable turns.
In addition the company has seen an improvement in net margins due to elimination of interest expenses and other overheads. This has come about inspite of increase in RM prices.
The company is also spending almost 1% of revenue on R&D which is a good, but a higher spend could be better. The company has a decent order book too.
In addition the company expects a replacement demand of around 28 Mn and new demand of around 29 Mn due to growth of the textile industry (page 24 of Annual report)

Risks
The risks are painfully obvious. The textile industry was hit initially due to rupee appreciation and then due to the credit crisis. During such times, CAPEX expenditure is usually put on hold or delayed. As a result the company expects the demand to drop by 10 to 20% in the current year.
Due to demand drop in the international market, other foreign manufacturers could become more aggressive in the India impacting the profitability of the company.

Competitive analysis
The Industry has decent entry barriers. LMW has fairly depreciated investments which would require quite a bit of investment by any new player. In addition LMW also has the benefit of economies of scale due to which it has lower cost in the industry
There is a certain amount of Lock-in too as once a textile producer buys the machinery from one supplier, it would tend to continue with it as there are cost benefits in terms of maintenance, training and CAPEX.
There are also learning curve barriers and contractual commitment barriers in the industry. In all, LMW enjoys a certain amount of competitive advantage in the industry which also shows up as high market share and high ROE.

Valuation
The company has almost 600Crs+ cash on the book. Net of the cash, the valuation is around 200-300 Crs. The net profit for last year was around 240 Crs out of which the other income was around 60 crs. As a result the core income was around 160 crs. Even under a sceanrio where the net profit drops by 50%, the current valuation is around 2-3 times the depressed profit.
A DCF (discounted cash flow) analysis assuming a growth of 7-8% and net margins of 8-10% gives an intrinsic value of around 4500. The current price is around 20% of this value

Scenario analysis
The above DCF analysis can be done with varying assumptions of growth and net margins.
If the company grows at 8% and has 8% margins during the next 7-8 years, the value is around 3900. This looks like a fairly conservative scenario for the next few years. Even with an extremely low margin of 5% for the next 7-8 years the value comes to 2000.
The above scenarios assume that 2009 and part of 2010 would be bad with net profit dropping by 50%.

conclusion
The company has been priced as if it will be out of business soon. The company is being valued at 250-300 Crs net of cash for all the fixed assets, intellectual property, customer relationships etc. In effect the market is saying that company will shut down in the next 1-2 years.
The credit crisis and subsequent recession in the textile industry is bound to impact companies like LMW. However this is part of a normal business cycle. Capital good are the first to bear the brunt of a recession. However that does not mean that the industry is heading for extinction. The pricing however seems to be pointing to that scenario

Some Q&A
I am putting some possible questions and answers which could be on your mind

Q1: The textile industry is in recession and the outlook is cloudy. Should we not wait till it becomes clear ?
The future is never completely clear. If it was clear in 2007 that the textile industry would be in recession in 2009, the stock price would not have gone up to 3000+. In 2007 the market was pricing the stock for a glorious future and now is pricing for complete disaster. The reality is always in between

Q2: The price could drop further. Should I wait for a better price?
The stock is selling at around 30-40% of intrinsic value. No one can predict how much lower it can go. I personally think bottom fishing is a waste of time. Time and energy should be spent on understanding the company, its industry and the future economics of the company than trying to get the last 10% in terms of price

Q3: All the stock analyst and gurus have sell recommendation on the stock. What makes you think you are right and all the others are wrong?
I don’t know if I am right or not. What I like are the odds. There is a high probability that the company and its stock could do well in the future. How well, I don’t know. I could be wrong too. However this is not the only stock in my portfolio. The reason for having a diversified portfolio is that I may be wrong 30-40% of the time and still do well on an overall basis. In addition the downside on the stock is protected as the company is now selling at very low valuations and is priced for disaster.

Q4: The volumes are low and stock is exhibiting weakness
Lets give the stock some horlicks 🙂 ..how does it matter if you plan to hold the stock for the long term. If the volumes are low and there is weakness, it is a good time to buy. When everything clear up, and optimisim and strenght returns it would a good time to sell.

Q5: The technicals for the stock are weak
Huh !! sorry we are from a different planet !!

Buying in bear markets

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I have been getting several questions of this type

– what should be my buying strategy ?
– Should I buy immediately or wait for the bottom?
– Is the price of stock ABC good for buying or should I wait?

I have very simple approach and answer to all the above questions (from my perspective)

Step 1: understand the company well. Have confidence on your analysis
Step 2: Evaluate intrinsic value. Be realisitic in your evaluation. Be neither too pessimistic or too optimistic
Step 3: check price. If selling below intrinsic value (I personally prefer 50% below intrinsic value, you can choose your own number), buy. Otherwise do nothing
Step 4 : Every quarter analyse the results of the company and check if your assumptions are still valid. Recalculate intrinsic value if required.

Personally I decide on the position size and then invest around 40-50% of the full position if the price meets my criteria in step3. The rest of the buying is done in the next couple of months.

This approach cuts both ways. In a rising market, I am unable to build a full position. In a bear market, I am able to average down on price. However while I am doing this I am not looking at the overall market levels or trying bottom fishing. I personally think bottom fishing is a futile exercise and a 5-10% difference in the price will not matter in the long run. If it does, then one is cutting it real close

Do not invest
There is caveat to the above suggestion. If you do not understand the company well, cannot evaluate the intrinsic value or do not have confidence on your analysis, please don’t invest. A bull market is forgiving and you may make money inspite of poor analysis. However a bear market is brutal. If you analyse a company incorrectly or do not have the confidence, the market will not bail you out.

Finally, if you ask for the all time best strategy – Create an SIP (systematic investment plan) on the index for the next 15 years and don’t disturb it.

What I am looking at now?
The market is moving pretty fast these days. As a result I have been reviewing my holdings and looking at new companies. As I plan to keep the total number of holdings fixed (more on that later), I am comparing new ideas with the exisiting ones. A new idea has to be more attractive than an exisiting one, to get into the portfolio (and push out the less attractive stock)

Some companies I am looking at
Lakshmi machine works
Ingersoll rand
ICSA (later)
SKF bearing
HTMT global (cash bargain)
Denso india
Sonata software
Torrent software

The above list is not a recommendation list. It is just a list of stocks I am looking at and may or may not invest in any one of them. I will post on stocks which I find attractive when I complete the analysis and am able to write a post on it.

Regarding personal emails to me

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I have been getting personal emails for quite sometime. The volume has now gone up considerably now. Although i try to respond to each and every email i get, that may always not be the case. So if anyone of you have written to me and not heard back, my apologies. I may have missed out on the email if it landed in my spam folder or it may still be in the queue. I am not being rude, intentionally.

I receive a lot of requests seeking my view on specific stocks. If you have been around this blog for some time, you may have noticed that any point of time I have around 10-15 ideas. I typically look at companies and end up rejecting most either as they are out of my circle of competence or there is something wrong fundamentally or the valuation is too high. As a result I may not have an idea of the company being highlighted in the email.

In order to provide a decent response, I have to invest 3-4 hrs of my time to arrive at some conclusion. As investing is not a profession, I cannot devote as much time as I would like to. So I would request you to be patient with my response. Finally time is key constraint for me (I do have a life beyond investing 🙂 ), so my approach is to focus on a few decent companies and not spread myself thin.

I am currently analysing the Annual reports of some of the companies I hold and would then start looking at new companies, preferably in the list which was provided to me in response to an earlier post (I have not forgotten about it).

I assume most of you are aware of RSS. RSS allows you get my posts directly in a feed reader such as google or you can subscribe via email too (don’t worry, I will not spam you). You can subscribe to this blog via ‘subscribe’ option on the sidebar. In addition, I typically update twitter with what I am reading or planning to post. You can follow me via this link.

Time to get busy

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Almost everyone is of the opinion that we are in for some nasty times especially in the US and other developed countries. India may not get impacted that badly, but could still face some impact.

I don’t agree that the bailout package in the US will fix the underlying issues. The underlying issue is that Banks have made bad investments via Derivatives and mortages. They have lost money on those investments. The only fix is to absorb the losses and build the capital again. In doing so, there will be a reduction in credit and liquidity.

The bailout package will at best allow the banks to sell these assets to someone (in this case the government). However I don’t think the US government will be stupid to buy it at book value. So the bailout package will help in creating liquidity for the toxic assets and get the system moving. However it is not going to reduce the losses and the subsequent pain.

I keep reading expectations of this mess getting resolved by early to mid 2009. I don’t know and I am not holding my breath on it. I personally don’t think the clean up will happen so soon. For history, look at the japanese experience in early 90’s.

Some guesses
So how does it play out for us ?

– Real estate in india could be in for some tough times. I still feel real estate in india was driven by liquidity and speculation in the last 3-4 years. A 30% or higher annual appreciation in real estate is not sustainable.
– Companies with debt, especially foreign borrowings could get hit big time. With the rupee depreciating and credit getting costly I would stay away from such companies (I personally have always avoided companies with high debt). The flip side is that companies with high cash holdings can deploy this cash profitably now (investments, cheap accquisitions or buybacks)
– Companies with a lot of promise, but not backed by results have already got hit and could get hit further. During bear markets, PE (what investors are ready to pay for the future) invariably contracts.
– IT, BPO and other industries could be in for a decent amount of pain. Mid to small cap companies could be at risk if they are dependent on a few clients in the banking sector.
– Double digit salary hikes may not happen for sometime now.
– Value investing will be back in fashion ( why not 🙂 ? ). I am half serious ! A lot of investors who made good money in the last few years and consider the stock market as a short cut to riches, may be in for a rude shock. A slow grinding bear market is eventually more painful than a quick drop.
– This blog will see a 1000% increase in visitors …just joking !! couldn’t resist it.

Whats next ?
As I have said before, no one can predict that. There were predictions on the sensex touching 25K by the end of the year. Now all the analysts and so called TV gurus have turned bearish.

I am starting to see some amazing bargains now, some new and some in my exisiting holdings. It is starting to feel like 2003 again J ..almost there, but not yet. So its time to get busy in finding great bargains and building the portfolio.

Analysing ICICI bank – from a depositor’s perspective

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The major events over the last few weeks created a small scare for some of the Indian banks. The fear was the level of exposure to the Lehman Brothers bankruptcy and the ongoing credit crisis.

Considering that a lot of us including my family and me have our savings with ICICI bank, I decided to have a look at the Annual report of the bank in detail. Following is the analysis of the bank from a depositor’s perspective (and not an investor’s perspective).

Some positives
The bank raised 20000 Crs in 2007. As a result of the issue, the CAR (capital adequacy ratio) now stands at around 14%. The bank has an annual profit of around 4150 Crs and a consolidated profit (including subsidiaries) of around 3100 Crs.

ICICI has several subsidiaries. In aggregate the subsidiaries are making losses, mainly due to the insurance sub. Due to the insurance accounting (expensing the policy expenses in the current year), the insurance subsidiary has been showing increasing losses as it grows. However the subsidiary has value, which is growing. In all, my personal estimate for the valuation of subsidiaries is around 23000 Crs, which is around 30% of market cap and almost 50% of book value

Negatives
The bank has been in the limelight due to the losses incurred by the collapse of Lehman brothers. This has been a case of availability bias. The market has been focused on the dramatic instead of the important (as usual).

The derivative related losses (dramatic) incurred by the bank have been to the tune of around 887 Crs which have been charged to the P&L statement (marked to market) and around 203 Crs, which have been charged to reserves.

AS 30 accounting requires mark to market accounting (and P&L pass-through) for certain derivatives and reserves adjustment for others (read AS30 to understand the details).

At the same time there has been a rise in the Gross NPA from 4850 Crs to 8350 crs. This increase is more important for the bank and its valuation as retail assets account for around 60% of the bank’s assets. However the market did not react strongly to this important change as it is hidden in the Balance sheet. The NPA have increased further in the current quarter. In addition the provision are around 55% of Gross NPA. So there is still an exposure of around 3500 Crs, which could hit the P&L in the future.

accounting is pretty complex
Bank accounting and especially derivative accounting is complex. It is very difficult to make out whether the bank is making or losing money on its entire derivatives exposure at any point of time. The bank discloses the total notional exposure which is atleast 1000 times or more of the net exposure. The profit or loss is a multiple of the net exposure. So it is difficult to figure out the profit or loss on the derivative book based on the bank disclosures alone.

In addition mark to market accounting is also misleading. It is equivalent to drawing your personal profit or loss based on change in share prices. If you think a stock is worth 100 rs, and you bought it for 50 rs and the price dropped to 30, how will you account for it ?

Mark to market accounting says, report a loss of 20 now. If the price jump to 70 in the next quarter then reverse this loss and report an ‘income’ of 40. However you may choose to ignore these swings and say I intend to hold the share for next 3 years and believe the market is mispricing the stock in the interim.

So what is the truth ? frankly there is no objective truth. It depends on the specific instrument and circumstances. Accounting requires being conservative and hence the loss of 20 in the current quarter.

This is the kind of complexity we are dealing with derivatives. The bank may very well have losses on the portfolio or they may right in saying that these are only notional losses as the underlying credits are still intact.

are there solvency issues ?
I think there are no solvency issues for the bank based on the current losses and statements from the bank. The bank has reduced the credit derivatives by almost 800 Mn usd. This does not mean that the bank will not have losses in the future due to derivatives. There is a huge derivatives exposure (notional) on the banks balance sheet.

As of March 2008, the fair value for the derivatives was positive and for interest swap is midly negative (page 116) , so the bank is not losing money on those derivatives (as of march 2008) . However this value may turn negative in the future.

However the point to remember that the bank is making around almost 1000 crs per quarter on a standalone basis. In addition it has a high capital cushion and assets in the form of subsidiaries. So there is a decent amount of capital cushion to absorb any of these losses. There is always a risk of unknown losses hiding in the balance sheet in the derivative books due to black swan events. I frankly cannot evaluate and estimate those losses from publicly available documents.

Finally the trump card for the bank is the concept of ‘Too big to fail’. Do you think the Indian government would risk allowing the bank to fail (second largest bank in the country) and jeopardize the financial system?

valuation based on book value ?
I am amazed at the simplistic valuations done by a lot of people and analysts. For ex: ICICI is selling at X times book value and hence it is a buy !! If you read the Annual report, you will realise the complexity of this company. It would be silly to value the bank based on book value alone
The bank has assets (subsidiaries) and risk (derivative exposure) which are quite difficult to estimate (atleast for me). A simple book value based valuation is a foolish way to value this bank.
The minimum analysis to arrive at the final valuation is to value the bank and its subsidiaries. The derivative exposure and other liabilities need to valued separately and the net value should be derived from the difference. Luckily, investing in stocks is not like exams where I will get flunked for not answering a question. I can always pass on the stock.

Value investing is simple but not easy

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The above is a statement by warren buffett. It is a very apt comment. Value investing does not require a major leap of faith. Most of us can find companies selling below intrinsic value. That is the simple part. The difficult part is ignoring your emotions and buying such a stock.

Value investing is even more difficult when the market is in a momentum phase, as it was during 2003-2007, when most of us could have made money by buying the hottest stock. Investors piled into real estate, infrastructure and other hot stocks and made good money as a result. Unfortunately very few have been able to hold on to the gains. Some may have suffered losses if they entered these stocks late in the game.

In addition a lot of these investors are now blaming the markets, the weather, the government and everyone else except themselves for the losses. I have personally learnt a key lesson over time – blame yourself for the losses and you will learn from the mistakes and not repeat them in the future.

Value investing is dumb
I frequently got mail or comments then, which went this way – My friend and my milkman have made a lot of money in the last 2 years. You keep talking of value investing, intrinsic value etc etc. All that is fine …but where are the results ? I think value investing is dumb !

My response typically was – Value investing is not a fad or a technique. It is buying something for less than it is worth. However this approach has to be combined with the temprament of not getting swept up in the euphoria of the markets. As much as one has to buy undervalued stocks, one has to avoid overvalued or fully valued stocks too.

So the reason value investing is diffcult is because one looks like a complete dumb a** buying stocks which have been dropping for some time, which do not have sexy prospects and which no one wants.

Price tracks value ..eventually
In the end price tracks value. Let me repeat – Price always tracks intrinsic value. This is the fundamental law of markets. The stock price may get disconnected from intrinsic value for some time, however it eventually converges to the intrinsic value of the company. So the key to making money is to buy below intrinsic value (preferably where the intrinsic value is also increasing) and sell when the stock sells above the intrinsic value. That’s all there is to value investing ..simple to understand but not easy to execute.

As an aside, I saw the following discussion on TED ( a discussion board on stocks) and liked what vivek had to say. I would recommend reading his response towards the end of the thread. I could not have said it better. Vivek’s response kind of demonstrates why value investing is not easy

‘A Balmer Lawrie is still available at these valuations, but can you go beyond ” Balmer Lawrie makes a 52-week low or What return the stock has given in the last 3 years”…..the answer will be a flat “No”…..

The thing is one needs to train his eyes….thats all’

Credit crisis – Impact on us

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The crisis is now full blown. I have not seen panic at this scale personally. I have read about it, but not seen it personally. It almost feels as if companies are being targeted one at a time. Lehman went into bankruptcy and AIG just survived through government help, though equity holders have been wiped out (almost). Now it seems the market has moved on to Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs and Washington mutual. It almost feels as if the market is killing one company at a time. Scary!

How does it impact us in India?
I think, the impact would initially be limited to companies with Global businesses. So IT companies with revenues in this space could get hit in the short term. However I think it should work out for these companies in the medium to long term as they find new clients, geographies and start growing again. The business model for IT companies is not under threat. However in the short run, IT companies are and could keep getting hit. However I would be worried about small IT companies with high exposure to the Financial and associated sector.

The next in line to get hit could be banks like ICICI bank and others, which have foreign operations and derivatives on their balance sheets. I am currently analyzing ICICI bank and I can tell you that complexity for most banks have gone up. As I wrote earlier, I exited banks quite some time back when I realized that I could not evaluate the risks correctly. That said, I think none of the Indian banks are under serious solvency threat. The profits could get hit, but most of the Indian banks do not have massive exposure of derivatives. I am analyzing ICICI and other banks from a depositor’s point of view and not from an equity investment point of view. So I am looking at these banks from a safety point of view.

Other than the above two sectors, I cannot think of any broad sectors, which could get hit hard by this crisis.

Second order and higher order effects
What is missed out in most analysis, is the second and higher order effects of an event. Indian companies may not get hit directly, but a recession in developed countries and lack of liquidity and risk aversion is bound to affect us in the medium term.

For the last, 3-4 years almost every asset class in India has gone up. There were all kinds of reasons given for this rise, but rarely was liquidity mentioned as one of the key reasons. Now with the liquidity drying up, I don’t think we will be seeing such double-digit growths in Real estate and other markets.

What am I doing?
I don’t get worried about drops in stock prices. Such drops are a part of the game. When I invest in equity, my main worry is permanent loss of capital and not temporary losses due to volatility.
Personally, I had put my buying on hold for the last couple of months. For some reason, I felt that the markets could go south in the medium term. As a result I stopped buying some time back. However I did not back this hunch by going short, as I may very well may have been wrong. I did buy some puts, but did not build a decent position as I was not sure. I think I should start trusting my gut more.

I am still standing pat and not planning major activity for some time. I personally don’t expect these issues to get worked out in a few weeks and feel that I could be getting better bargains in the near future.

I have a question and would appreciate if some could answer, as I have not been able to figure it out – If the bank/ DP fails, what happens to my shares. Is it similar to a savings account where you can lose your savings or are the shares held by NSDL or someone else and hence I am safe?

A failure a week

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First it was Bear stearns, but the US treasury (similar to our Finance ministry) and the Fed (similar to our RBI) engineered a bailout. Bear stearns, an investment bank was bought out by J P morgan, a commerical bank, in March. This bailout was done to calm the markets and reduce systemic risk.

Well, next in line were Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae which were nationalized (federal takeover) for the same reason last week. Now this week it is the turn of Lehman brothers which seems to be on the verge or ready to file for bankruptcy protection. Merrill lynch, another Investment bank and brokerage, is in merger talks with Bank of america. After Lehman brothers, Merrill lynch seems to be the weakest firm and so it could come under attack.

More companies at risk
AIG, one of the largest insurers has fallen by 30% and is at risk now. So is washington mutual, another large bank. So we have a situation where the credit crisis (acutally bad investments on part of the banks and institutions) is now engulfing the financial system. Finally the S*** is hitting the fan !

We could very well see a domino effect and the US government may decide not to bail out any more companies. We could be in for some nasty times.

What does it mean for us ?
So how does it effect us ? Well if you are into medium to long term investing, not much. Actually the panic could create opportunities for us in india. I really don’t see Indian companies getting impacted (other than IT or export oriented companies due to a possible recession in the US and other economies). The impact for IT companies in the long run should not be too much. However there could a short term impact in companies with a high percentage of revenue in the BFSI segment.

All this mess, makes you wonder what kind of risk our banks and financial services firms are taking. I am repeatedly reminded of this statement by warren buffett

‘When you combine ignorance with leverage you get some pretty interesting results’

Analysis : BEL annual results

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Read my earlier analysis of BEL here

Results summary
The company had an average year in 2007-2008. The sales growth was around 7% and the profit growth was around the same. The net profit margin improved to around 20%. The company maintained the ROE numbers at the 25%+ levels and continues to be a zero debt- cash rich company
The open order book has now increased to 9586 Crs with around 3100 Crs executable in the current year. This provide visibility to around 80% of the annual revenue.
The business is skewed to the fourth quarter due to the projects nature of the business and hence the company accrues almost 60% of its profit in the last quarter.

The positives
The company maintained its ROE, margins and other key performance indicators such as order book, Fixed asset Turnover ratio, Raw material costs etc.

In addition the company is now spending almost 5.1% of revenue on R&D and plans to increase it to 8-9% of sales. This is a very positive development as R&D is crucial in this business . BEL is among the very few indian companies which spend on R&D and may have the highest spend in terms of sales. The company has been developing a lot of new products and now gets almost 83% of the turnover from indigenously developed products

The company has conservative accounting for foreign exchange (Company has no derivatives) and charges all changes to the Profit and loss statement.

Finally the company continues to be a debt free company with almost 2400 Crs in cash on the books. Net of cash, the ROE numbers of the company are fairly high, which reflects the strong competitive advantage of the company.

The negatives
The number that concerns for me is the high level of recievables. The recievables have shot up from around 1000 odd crores in 2005-06 to around 2080 Crs in 2007-08. As a result recievables have consumed almost 60% of the free cash for the last 2 years. This is very discomforting and will have to watched closely. The management has indicated that they are planning to bring it down, however I am still concerned about this number which is now a red flag.

The other concern is the very high skew for the fourth quarter. It is not very healthy to book so much business in a single quarter, especially the year end to make the numbers. Projects type business (for ex: blue star) have higher skews in Q4, however such skew results in poor recievables turns, bad debts and other issues (more on that later).

The valuation
The company now sells at around 6 times earnings (net of cash). So the market is clearly expecting the company to perform pretty badly. Now this is a company earning very high return on capital, growing in mid to low teens and in a business which is pretty immune to the economy (defence spending). In addition, though private companies are now being allowed in defence since 2001, BEL has been able to do well.
Other than the fact that the company is PSU, I cannot find a reason for almost a 50-60% drop in the stock price (other than that the market as a whole has declined).

Added note : I would not read too much into the Q1 results. As I said earlier in the post, if the company books too much revenue in Q4, the next years Q1 results get impacted.

I have loaded the a detailed analysis of the company in google groups.

Replying to a comment, a correction and misc thoughts

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I got the following comment recently

If I take u back to 1994, how would u have spotted Infosys. The only way one could spot it could be through the market opportunity, good results and good management.or u may enlighten if there was any other way. So it could have been a kind of recurring deposit wherein one wud have seen good results and put money in that company every quarter.

I agree there could have been companies where the growth wud have stopped, but then its like finding out 20 horses in a race of 5000 and then slowly and steadily identifying the best horse through results only. When I say results I mean higher EPS also and not just a company like Teledata or any other which diluted its equity too.

Thats what big companies like GE, Tatas do. Hire gud people and then thru performance weed out the non performers.

Agreed that Educomp is richly valued or investing in Infosys in 2000 wud have been burning fingers. What I am saying is that implmenting the value investing approach with growth companies.Take micro technologies for instance. It has been growing at CAGR of >50% for last 4 years. It has a book value of 206 approx. It trades at 220. EPS of around 50. Almost no debt. Mcap of 60% CAGR for last few years.

These companies are not richly valued at all.Thru Value Investing combined with Growth, I could see huge returns. Unfortunately I did not put a lot for money. e.g Rajesh Exports in a single year increased its sales from 200 to 2200 crore somewhere around 2003. That time the stock did not appreciate and had excellent value(128 book value, eps around 40, Price around 150. It gave 25 times returns since then), That was the time to enter and make huge money. and I did but with a small amount as I was learning then.

Following is my response :

Hi anonymous
There is a book, The gorrila game, which talks about an approach on how to invest in tech companies.

Approach is similar to the one you mention ..buy the whole basket ..and then follow the results of each. sell the poor performers and invest the cash into the good performers. That could have been a way to make money in infosys.

However it would have been diffcult to have the foresight in 1994 that infosys would do so well.even employees working in infosys did not recognise that (employees who were given options then thought the options were worthless).

I think growth is compatible with valueinvesting. Growth in the end, is a variable in the valuation process. As long as your are paying less than the growth implied intrinsic value, you will do well. So microtechnologies and Geodesic may fall in that bucket. They maybe insanely undervalued due to the excellent prospects. I have however not looked at these companies and hence cannot comment. However I would definitely look at them now.

Regarding your experience with rajesh exports, I can understand what happened as I have gone through similar experiences several times – namely how do you know beforehand that you are right on a company. I think as one gains experience, one learns to identify and benefit from such opporunities.

A correction
In the valuation of several companies I have used the following formulae to check the valuation

Mcap – cash on hand = Net Mcap
Net Mcap / Net profit = effective PE.

There is an error in the above approach. Typically the above cash earns 8-10% as part of the other income. The net profit should be adjusted with this non core income to arrive at the effective PE, otherwise you end up double counting the cash.

The error, lucklily has not changed most of the valuations I have done, but it is an error all the same and has a bigger impact if the cash as a % of market cap (mcap) is high. It is such an obvious error, but I have missed it till now. Well, better late than never.

A quote

I saw this quote from Keynes (A famous economist)

When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?

Reply to a criticism during the Great Depression of having changed his position on monetary policy, as quoted in Lost Prophets: An Insider’s History of the Modern Eonomists (1994) by Alfred L. Malabre, p. 220

This quote is very apt in investing. One analyses companies based on present facts and a set of assumptions. Valuation is finally an exercise of projecting the future. By being conservative, you can reduce the possiblity of an error. However when facts change dramatically, I am reminded of the above quote and find it prudent to change my mind – nothing wrong with that. Even a 60-70% success rate in picking stocks (being right 6-7 times out of 10) can give very good results in the long run.

Misc thoughts
I am reading through the Annual reports of several companies which I follow. I will be posting my analysis on the same. The market seems to be going one step forward and one step back. There are
problems developing in the US and the markets may start weakening in the US. In india, inflation seems to be high and somehow the policy response has still not been strong enough. I think the RBI thinks that this inflation is temporary and it will cool on its own.

I hope they are right for everyone’s sake. If however they are wrong and they forced to hike the rates further to kill inflation, then we could have nasty times ahead of us in the market.

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